Buying road race wheels

[Huw]

My Bontrager Select road wheels are showing signs of wear (spokes snapping, freewheel gummied with dust'n'crap and making funny noises, braking surfaces getting thinner). Therefore, I've been considering getting some new wheels for racing, and wondered what advice people might have.

I'd like to get a good quality, general-purpose, honest set of race wheels. I'm not necessarily interested in carbon fibre, fancy-pants spokes, deep profile sections or weight(lessness). I see myself using the wheels for opens, regionals like Menangle, and local crits, with whatever terrain they supply. I'm heavy (94 kg), so the wheels need to be strong, and I have a limited budget (I'll consider up to $1000, but would prefer to pay half that, or even less still). I'm running Shimano 10 sp.

I'd love to hear your suggestions!

[Kieran]

My reccomendation see:


http://www.cellbikes.com.au/p_484_Ameri ... _Australia

I can get them for you for app $200 less.

[geoff m]

Huw i was just reading a review in Bicycling Australia today by Steve Hogg on Token C30A.

They are $550 and under 1660 grams and quoted by Steve Hogg as "
I rode them during daily commutes, suburban trianing rides, over the blue metal roads of RNP and could happily live with a pair of these as my only wheels fro clusb racing and training....... Value 99% rating. Performance 90% rating."

www.jetblackproducts.com

If you PM me your email address I will send you a PDF scan of the article.

[T-Bone]

For that price the Tokens are a bit too heavy.

It seems as though you just want something simple that will perform well, and be nice and strong. If we try and keep the budget close to $500, there're a few options available.

Custom build-
Rims- for something simple i'd probably go with Velocity Aeroheads (or amercian classic 350 rims to save weight), with 28spokes for the front and 32 for the rear. If you want something a bit more aero, then there's 30mm niobium rims which are reasonably light (450g), and i'd go 24 spokes front, 28spokes rear.

Spokes- Plenty of options, but i'd probably stick with something doublebutted, like DT revolutions or Sapim Lasers, with maybe something a bit fatter for the driveside rear. Aero spokes like CX-rays or pillar titanium are nice, but not really necessary.

Hubs- Once again plenty of choices. Dura-Ace are nice, so are White Industries (especially if you like loud freewheels). You can go more expensive and save more weight, but i don't think this is a priority for you. I'll find some more options soon.

Anyway, these builds would be around 1400-1500g give or take a bit. I'd probably go with the 30mm Niobium rims, though they will have to come from overseas as i don't know where to get them locally.

I'll get some more info for you soon, with some costings, and hopefully Kieran can help with some prices too.

The American Classic Hurricane wheels Kieran showed are nice, especially at around $300, though i have mixed feelings about the rear american classic hub. I think the replacing the bearings in the one i've got will solve the problem, though i just wasn't happy with the durability of the design. My dad is happy enough with his though, but i put a White Industries H1 hub on my race wheels, and have been happy.

[quigs]

I rode a set of American Classic 420's in the alps last year and in training this year. In fact my one lousy race win this year was on the 420's. My opinion of them is that they are fantastic value. Superlight, roll superbly well, but there is a catch.

I was warned about the hubs before I bought, the rear hub specifically. I ignored that warning and for about 3000km the wheels were superb, like I mentioned earlier, they climbed well in the alps, rolled and gripped well on the descents etc... however, one day I started getting a clicking and banging noise which deteriorated very badly over the 50 miles I was from home at that point. Turns out, the bearings in the rear hub were shot, plus the freehub was worn out. Now the roads are not great back home, but I was riding at about 64kg at the time, so I would not have been too hard on them. New bearings mostly sorted it out, still a bit of roughness due to the freehub I think, but right now the wheels are on the turbo trainer.

I have mixed feelings about the wheels, until they broke I was thrilled with them (so much so that I am considering putting some tune hubs on them to extend their life). After they failed with an apparently common flaw my opinion was colored. My planet x pro carbon 50's also have American Classic hubs and they roll well, no problems, but then again they only come out on race days, preferably dry ones... Maybe the American Classic will hold up better in your dryer climate here. In Ireland its wet a lot of the time and the hubs are not very well sealed.

Personally, I like the Campaq Eurus wheels, and currently ride Mavic Kysrium SL's on my training bike. If I were going for a budget wheel that rolls well and has great reliability I would look at the Fulcrum 5. Not superlight, but decent and goes for about 290 aussie dollars in Ireland (www.cyclesuperstore.ie), not sure what it costs over in Oz, where everything appears to be a lot more expensive (never thought I'd say that considering Ireland is meant to be the most expensive country in Europe !

Custom would be a nice way to go, I recently came across a set of Mavic Open Pro CD's with Ultegra hubs and their ride quality was seriously impressive... I hear great things about those Niobium rims that T-Bone mentioned too, pair that with some Shimano hubs, Ultegra or Dura Ace and some decent Sapim spokes and you will not go far wrong !

[T-Bone]

Sounds like the same thing wrong with my rear american classic hub (may have occured in adjustment, but either way i wasn't happy), though i haven't been bothered to get new bearings to try and fix it. The front hub on the other hand seems fine, though i've read that the small bearings may have a shorter life than most.

I may get a good deal on some 7700 dura ace hubs on ebay, so i'll let you know if i do.

[quigs]

The key to those hubs is not tightning them fully, if you do, they crack and bang and run rough, plus don't have the skewers on to tight. Either way, they are a little fragile. Which is a great shame because they really work well otherwise.

[Huw]

Thanks for all the information everyone! I guess I'm still no wiser about what to get, however. I tell ya, this is the problem with Capitalism - there's just too much choice out there - how in my sweet mother's name am I going to be able to use logic and facts to decide? Oh, the humanity!

American Classics seem to have hub and/or freehub problems, but potentially fixable? And potentially a great deal through Kieran (thanks for the offer Kieran!) My question is, do all American Classics suffer the same potential problem? I am not cool with the possibility of my hub blowing way the hell out without warning (but you did make it home on them Guigs?).

Token C30A suggested by T-Bone to be overpriced (for their weight)? But we all know what we think about T-Bone and weight. I don't really fancy the name (always either reminds me of that black kid character on South Park, or seems slightly perjorative), but probably that's not a valid reason for dismissing them. But I look forward to reading Geoff's review on them - might swing it for me.

Niobium seem to be in, but I can't really tell why this might be. Is it because they're named after a strange metal that only exists in boob-shaped boulders from Neptune? It sure appears that I can only buy them from Neptune. Or are they seriously good quality/value?

Spinergy Xaero Lites are on sale at Torpedo 7 for $800. But I hear their customer service sux? They may not be very stiff? I know Eugen rides the Stealths, and they seem to help him climb like a robot mountain goat with nuclear muscles and rocket power. I also became fascinated by the fat white spokes - I figure if I was racing with these, and they had that effect on the competition, I could really buy myself some time.

Fulcrum: I have oft admired these. The name sounds cool, that's for sure (but maybe that's just because I have a see-saw fetish). Perhaps the Fulcrum 3 would be a more redeeming, but still affordable(??), version of the 5?

Any more suggestions? Overseas or local? Reviews on wheels that help one make a decision?

Oh, and does anyone want to give me a set of Lightweights for Chrissy?

[mikesbytes]

TWE

and

Do it your self


BTW I ain't gunna follow you on a descent if you are using Lightweights

[matt]

climb like a robot mountain goat with nuclear muscles and rocket power

I'll take half a dozen thanks

[weiyun]

Lightweight? You are kidding right? Who wants that stuff when there's LEW Pro VT-1? Bargain at US$4995 on account of the strong AUD.



I have personal experiences with Fulcrum Racing 5 and have been happy with them. Effectively you are riding Campagnolo with Fulcrum, so it's a very dependable option if you are going with factory wheels. Fulcrum R3 is lighter and can be compared with the Zonda in the Campy range. Of course, Fulcrum wheels can be compatible with Shimano geartrain.

[Huw]

Did you just make a pass at me Weiyun?

Sorry, my head started spinning when I saw those sub-kilo LEWDs.

[FAswad]

Neuvation?

http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wheel/r ... 28sl3.html

[Huw]

I have to admit, I'm a bit confused. T-Bone/Guigs, could you supply a link or more information about the Niobium? I'm still not sure I've determined who actually sells these, though the name is mentioned here and there. Are they part of the Neuvation stable, or do I have my lines crossed?

[weiyun]

Huw, your fixie century ride has adversely affected your mental state! I suggest that you hand over your fixie to me now or you'll reach the point of no return.

BTW, JamesM rides on a set of Fulcrum R1s with his Scott. You might want to ask him how he likes it. Fulcrum R1 is comparable to the Eurus from the Campy range.

[weiyun]

Neuvation?
http://www.neuvationcycling.com/wheel/r ... 28sl3.html

I looked at Neuvation in detail before I bought my Ksyrium ES. The bottom line is that it's not a good idea, especially for someone like Huw. They are a bargain for a reason. Based on widespread reports, the freewheel body is soft and grooves are easily cut by cogs over time. So despite the great customer support by the proprietor, I don't think it's a wise buy.

[Huw]

I looked at Neuvation in detail before I bought my Ksyrium ES. The bottom line is that it's not a good idea, especially for someone like Huw. They are a bargain for a reason. Based on widespread reports, the freewheel body is soft and grooves are easily cut by cogs over time.

Sheesh, that's no good. Thanks Weiyun. How do you like the Ksyriums?

I sent an email to Greg Ryan (Two Wheels Enterprises), and will let you know how that enquiry goes.

[weiyun]

Here's a link to a study on a number of wheels. Although not exactly fair to compare wheels of different rim profile and price range, it may give you some ideas. Also, durability was not part of the study aim.

http://www.bikephysics.com/rails/wheel/list

[FAswad]

Huw, it would be great to know how it all goes with TWE. I would also like some reasonably priced wheels that I can use for all my racing (crits road tt and everyting else). I am really tempted by American Classics, but do not like the idea of the rear hub quitting on me suddenly!

[weiyun]

I've been happy with the Ksyrium ES and have not had trouble with it. I haven't recommended it to you so far because its reputation isn't so crash hot on web forums. Many people have pointed to it being over priced, not the stiffest for the money, not aero and bushing bearing design in the freewheel. But it is nice looking with a nice supple ride (low profile rim) compared with the R5. But if you can live with that, Ksyrium's durability is well known along with a bit of bling. So I ride on...

I think you can get K-ES these days for around A$1000 by O/S mail order. Otherwise, Fulcrum Racing 1 is at a similar price range. Very few people will be able to knock on Campy technology. The hub in the R1 is effectively from the Record group and the 2:1 rear wheel spoke ratio makes a lot of mechanical sense.

You are welcome to take my K-ES and R5 for a ride. As they are both Campy compatible, you can at least try the front wheels.

[mikesbytes]

I looked at Neuvation in detail before I bought my Ksyrium ES. The bottom line is that it's not a good idea, especially for someone like Huw. They are a bargain for a reason. Based on widespread reports, the freewheel body is soft and grooves are easily cut by cogs over time. So despite the great customer support by the proprietor, I don't think it's a wise buy.

Yes, that problem occurred with a rider that we both know. The same rider now raves about TWE, not just for the quality of the wheels but the quality of the after sales service.

[Huw]

Huw, it would be great to know how it all goes with TWE. I would also like some reasonably priced wheels that I can use for all my racing (crits road tt and everyting else). I am really tempted by American Classics, but do not like the idea of the rear hub quitting on me suddenly!

Hey Fouad, sounds like we're in the same boat! I'll keep you posted.

[mikesbytes]

I'm interested in a set of wheels too

[quigs]

I have to put a vote in for the Mavics in terms of durability. I have an older set of Kysriums SL's (one model down from the ES), which I have had for about 3 years and 2 serious crashes. One which was head on into a parked car and snapped the handlebars and frame (both carbon), however the wheels were not even slightly out of true. Amazing. I did have to replace the front bearings after 3 years but apart from that they have been bullet proof. They ride pretty well too. You can't go wrong with the Mavics or Campag/Fulcrum, although you do pay a premium for their top end stuff.

I still like my relativley heavy Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL's, once you get them going they really do maintain speed better on the flat and they are not an awful lot slower on the climb than my Planet X Pro Carbon 50's with Custom build which come in about 350g lighter.... That being said I might go for a set of Zipp 404's for next year....

You could still go for the American Classics if you are getting a really good deal. If they are going cheap then they might be worth the risk. The newer hubs are supposed to be better (although that being said, I have the newer hubs...). Keep em well maintained and don't let grit build up in the hubs, get someone who knows what they are doing to sort them out for you before you fit them, the instructions state that you need to have a little play in the hub but even experienced mechanics ignore this and I think that may have been the case with mine. I think a lot of my problems were caused by them being incorrectly adjusted to begin with.

I don't know if you can get them over here, but a very good, light wheel that is really good value are the Xero XCR1's. (About 300 aus in Ireland, but don't know if you can get them over there). I know a guy with a set and he prefers them to his top of the range mavics, bought them as a training wheel and ended up liking them so much he raced on them also, despite have a set of wheels that cost more than 3 times as much.

[FAswad]

Hey Kieran, what's the story with the American Classic CR 420. I think i'd rather have them over the Hurricanes. Is there a "Kieran" special price on those as well?

My reccomendation see:


http://www.cellbikes.com.au/p_484_Ameri ... _Australia

I can get them for you for app $200 less.

[T-Bone]

Niobium rims are made by Kinlin in Taiwan. http://weightweenies.starbike.com/phpBB ... p?id=22757 They're obviously filled with charisma!!! Can't beat it for a selling point.

Also labled as IRD, and Speedcific, and i'm sure there're others. One place for the rims http://fairwheelbikes.com/index.php?mai ... x&cPath=24

On a quick calculation of costs, it looks like Niobium rims with Dura-Ace hubs would cost around $500-550, though probably slightly cheaper with a bit more searching. Using velocity Aeroheads would be easier, and lighter, but it's up to you for what you prefer in rims.

If you're looking prebuilt, http://www.bikesoul.com/wheeldivision.html have some nice cheap wheels, and from the small amount i've read they seem ok, but i'm not sure if the spoke count would be enough for some durable wheels for you.

TWE wheels look pretty good, seeing as they're handbuilt, and should be customised to suit your needs, but it all depends on whether the price will suit you.

I'm not really sure about mavics and everything as i've never used them, but i find nice hubs are important for nice wheels. I'll be building up some Campy Omega V rims i've got sitting around soon, i've got a front american classic hub coming, but i still need to decide on the rear hub, but the dura ace ones on ebay weren't cheap enough for me at this point in time. I may go for another Black hub to match the front, and then i'll have to decide what i'm going to use them for (maybe the touring bike...)

[mikesbytes]

http://www.velocitywheels.com/default.asp?contentID=563

The specs on the fusion make them an interesting option, 4mm deeper than aeroheads and 10-15gms lighter. If weight is not a premium issue, you could consider deepv.

I've used the older velocity aero rims for years and found them to be fairly good.

[T-Bone]

Fusions are 60g heavier than aeroheads. Deep V's are strong, but since Huw wants the wheels for racing, i reckon something a little lighter is nice, and the Niobium rims shouldn't be too much different in price to the DeepV's, but you'll save 200-300g, considering the Niobiums are 440-465g, and DeepV's these days seem to be close to 580g from what i've seen.

[mikesbytes]

There seems to be different weight specs for fusion on the summary page to the specific page, sorry for the error.

However it gets me thinking

Huw has a very different body to you James, he weighs 96kg? and generates more watts out of those legs than any other DHBC rider, except Simon.

So I ask the question weight vs aero ? As a percentage of total weight, including rider (yes I know its rotational weight), the difference is less for Huw, so is a big rider like Huw actually better off to go aero or semi aero?

[Huw]

Hey Mike, I've really trimmed down lately - to a svelte 94 kg. It's this new high-fat diet where I carbo-load every night irrespective of whether I plan on riding the next day!

I just got a reply from TWE:
" thanx for the inquiry... i do build alot of wheels that are very stiff and still very light for heavier riders understanding that not every cyclist is a scrawny weener... just threw that one in for ya mate . ive a few diff rim models- the best for youself being my xr 25 rim these are the rims darren cash uses he was kind enough to write me a very complimentary testimonial....on website ive lots like this but no time to put em up....well i havnt yet anyway but soon...anyways.. i have few diff hub models lots of diff spokes etc etc
perhaps a set would be: using my best hubs, these rims mentioned ( pic also )and sapim blade spokes 24/24hole, $899 these are a very stiff/responsive set of wheels, very aero as well and a good weight..guaranteed to last a long time , nice to ride on and look great as well..just 1 option though !?
if your in sydney id welcome you to come over and check out whole range, colours etc
visit not necc though will be in touch greg 0405 123 153
ps the warranty is irrespective of price weather you wreck a rim or someone else does its covered...my back up and service is the very best by far.."
(I didn't know it, but Darren Cash was 2006 Australian and NSW Road Masters Champ)

These sound like very nice wheels, however the Niobium/Dura-Ace combo sounds like it has the potential to work out significantly cheaper, and potentially lighter (though who would build them?) T-Bone, I hear your comment about having nice hubs, and I agree - but any ideas about how to assess the difference between a set of e.g. TWE hubs against a set of Dura-Ace?

[weiyun]

I wouldn't be surprised if you can get him to swap for a hub of your choosing.

[mikesbytes]

Huw, what are your existing hubs like?

[Huw]

They're OK, but not the quickest I'd wager. Also of concern is when I last checked the freewheel (right before I began this thread), it was bound. So I had a 20-speed fixie for a little while before I wrenched it free with a chain-whip.

I put it down to riding in the rain, and having it on the back of Al's van when we took a detour through the dust coming back from Inverell (but don't mention the war). That dust got everywhere over Adrian's, Joe's and my bike. Inside the shift-levers, everywhere. I felt sorry for Joe, whose fine De Rosa was in perfect-looking condition before the ride, then fine road dust into every nook and cranny on the way home. I tell ya, not even those topless girls on the freeway could make up for the long-lasting pain of penetrating dust.

[weiyun]

Ahhh... Freewheel service. One area of bike maintenance that I still don't have a feel for. Does anyone do it? I understand that it needs to be done at a somewhat regular interval.

[Huw]

Those are good questions, Weiyun. I haven't, since I understood (admittedly from experience with a MTB freewheel) that, actually, you can't, but I guess it depends on what you've got.

I checked the Shimano website - freewheels do indeed tend to be a non-fixable unit that one simply replaces (MTB is Shimano). I just downloaded a massive Bontrager manual, and there are a number of photos of people mucking around with freewheel units, so I assume I might be able to do it for my old wheels (if I can actually work out what model they correspond to, since they don't appear to be listed). I guess check manufacturer website and get a download if possible?

[Adrian E]

Yeah, that dust was a killer.... : ( I'm still finding it all over the bike.

Like you Huw, I'm also in the market for a second set of wheels. My current wheels are needing to be trued every two months. They're 14 years old and fairly heavy. I'm thinking about the Velocity's because at the end of the day, I'm interested in durability more than anything else.

[weiyun]

What I understood to be freewheel maintenance is really just a clean out of that hollow space and re-lube. Then there's various talks on the importance of oil used for proper functioning. Very confusing subject based on my readings so far.

[T-Bone]

He doesn't specify what hubs he actually uses, though i can try and work it out from the pictures on the site. One thing i like with shimano hubs is that they still use cup and cone bearings rather than sealed cartridge bearings.

Tried looking at the pics on the site, and the hubs i can see are American Classics (SLR range), and Novatec/Formula/velocity hubs (definitely see Novatec printed on some). In my opinion Dura-Ace are better than both, though a little heavier. As Weiyun said, i'm sure he could build wheels with hubs of your choice, but for $899, you could get nice light Tune hubs or something similar, there're a lot of options.

The Niobium will be cheaper, but i can't know for sure about weight, but they should be at least the same. I think the Niobiums would be the best allround option. 24-24 spokes would be doable, but 28 on the rear may be a better option for your weight just to be safe, or even 28-28 if you wanted. I don't think the Bladed spokes are necessary, unless they're cx-rays (less bladed more oval) but even then i think round is fine.

As for a wheel builder, Lindsay may put them together for you if you ask him nicely. I've been happy with all the wheels he's built for me, though i plan to build my next ones myself, or at least attempt to....

I think with your hubs you just need to open them up and give them a clean, and regrease, If the bearings are rough, they'd need replacing, assuming they're sealed. With Shimano hubs you can service them fairly easily, the Freehub body is one piece, but the freewheel interface can be accessed and serviced. I still need to buy some cone spanners, and some high quality grease before i get around to servicing mine.

[T-Bone]

That's right, some hubs prefer different oils, or greases depending on their freewheel mechanism. Too much grease and it's likely to perform poorly. I'm sure you've heard of people running track hubs on oil, however this means frequent servicing as the oil escapes, but surposedly keeps any friction to a minimum.

[Simon Llewellyn]

What about TWE custom made wheels? I"m not they fit the budget but they're nice, local and not factory built. Plus they sponsor FNWTR....

[T-Bone]

You'll have to read the other posts Simon, TWE was contacted by Huw already.

[Simon Llewellyn]

Too lazy, I"m studying for an exam. The less excess reading the better...

[FAswad]

I have been thinking about this wheel issue now and it is buggering my brain cells.

Taking all things into consideration, including weight of rider (I am 90-92kg and Huw is thereabouts too), I am starting to think that weight savings for heavy riders like us is not as important as aero, so it might be a sound idea to sacrifice a bit of weight for max aero advantage.

So I am thinking that, for me, Velocity DeepV rims built around very nice hubs and blade spokes (16front and 28rear) are a great bet. What do you think of those? and what would such a build weigh for both front and rear?

The other option I can think of is the American Classic 420.

Why aren't there alloy rims with a really deep section out there? I am talking 40cm or thereabouts.

[T-Bone]

Niobium rims are 30mm deep like the Deep V's, plus you get a weight savings. They're usually available in 16-20-24-28-32 holes. Though i'd have to do some checking to find the right drillings in stock. I think they'd cost about the same too, which is why i suggested them.

American Classic 420 rims weigh the same as the 30mm Niobiums, but have the extra 4mm depth. However, they are a fair bit more expensive to buy the rims alone (from europe...)

I'd reccomend the same for you and Huw, probably 30mm Niobiums, with 24-28 spokes. You could probably cut the spoke counts down without much worry, but i was being conservative. This should weigh about 1500g+-50g, while Deep V's would probably add 200g. This is with Dura-Ace hubs, which are available down to 24h front and rear (also 18h front slotted). New Dura-Ace rear also has faster engagement. If you wanted 16 or 20 spokes on the front wheel i'd say get a White Industries Front Hub, or for 16 you could use a 32h Dura Ace hub. Sapim Cx-Ray or DT Aerolite spokes are better than fully bladed, and should be easier to build with as they fit through standard spoke holes. There's also Titanium, but it's up to you how much you'd want to spend on spokes.

As for deep alloy rims, as you get deeper the weight just rises too much. I think the old Shamals were 40mm, and i've seen some Race Inc wheels with 45mm deep alloy rims, but i don't know where they can be bought.

If you can get the american classic 420s cheap enough, they'd probably be fine, or if you were me you'd swap out the rear hub.

[mikesbytes]

James,

So the rims you are suggesting gives the same advantage as deep v while being lighter and hence are a better option.

I googled Niobium and it seems to be a particular type of alloy. What band / model rims are you referring to.

Also if you want sealed bearings, what hubs are the one to go for?

[T-Bone]

The Niobium rims are labled as many different things. Seem to be made by Kinlin in Taiwan. Can be found here http://fairwheelbikes.com/index.php?mai ... 32701814b9 here http://oddsandendos.safeshopper.com/9/cat9.htm?284 here http://www.interlocracing.com/rims.html and some wheelbuilders that i know of in the US. Generally they are just referred to as 30mm Niobium rims.

Prettymuch all hubs have seals to keep dirt and stuff away from the bearings, though people usually refer to cartridge bearings as sealed bearings. In this case, White Industries would be my choice, as they are probably the best value and good performance, though i don't have experience with many generic hubs. White industries hubs look great too (especially polished silver), though they've recently increased the bearing size for better durability which has added a little weight (still a bit lighter than Dura-Ace). Otherwise there're plenty of good hubs around, such as DT Swiss 240s, Tune, Speed Composites, the list goes on.

[Huw]

A couple of things:

Dura-Ace 7850 hubs: T-Bone, a brief search doesn't reveal too many places selling the 7850s (though have noticed a few places with price reductions on the 7800s, and therefore well-worth considering). Can you recommend anywhere in particular?

Freehub service: Last night, I sacrificed my mountain bike rear wheel to the altar of exploration (plus its freehub was also pretty gummy, like my road wheel). After removing the axle (and discovering worn, crazed bearings on the drive side - don't need that nonsense in my rig!), I was able to remove the freehub using a 10 mm allen key. I consulted my Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance and saw that he recommended dripping chain lube into the freehub (I did it from the rear, which was exposed since I'd been able to remove it) and spinning and dripping and spinning until it started working properly. This I did, and it worked a treat - it now spins like a top and buzzes like a cricket on fantasy. I'll be doing this on the Bontragers just as soon as I can get the freewheel off (I think it needs bigger than 10 mm allen key - the biggest I've got). Actually, Zinn's top recommendation for freehub service is to use the Morningstar Freehub Buddy tool, US$25 with which you can inject lube under pressure, getting it into every nook and cranny. Note that this involves removing the freehub dustcap, which usually destroys it. In this case, you'll also need to remember to get the US$6 reusable Morningstar dustcap.

Classic, quality wheels at Colorado Cyclist. Heavyish (because I've learned to think that anything over 1500 g per pair is heavy...) but great quality, no fuss, hand-built, well-priced wheels to have a stickybeak at.

[weiyun]

Big allen keys are hard to come by. For my bike build, I had to buy a set of wrench handle compatible allen keys (going up to 14mm) from Bunning. Pretty expensive route as they don't sell individual sizes and I only needed that one size for the crank bolt.

[T-Bone]

I wasn't suggesting pulling the freewheel itself apart, just removing the freewheel body to get to the freewheel mechanism, and clean and grease that, though it sounds like the oil may have done the job to get into the freehub and wash some gunk out.

After a bit of searching, forget what i just said, i've only ever pulled apart an american classic hub, and that didn't take much (undo the lock nuts and give the axle a whack...).

At least you got one hub improved, this may help with the bontragers http://www.bontrager.com/assets/File_Li ... 35_970.pdf looks like the required allen key may be an 11mm, almost as bad as the 7mm needed for the campy cranks on my fixie.

The colorado Cyclist wheels look alright, but they can be closer to 1550 using doublebutted spokes, alloy nipples, and not including skewer in the weight (which is standard practice).

The 7850s are the newer version of rear Dura-Ace hub, which is once again compatible with 9spd, which is a plus for compatibility with more cassettes. The freehub is Titanium to prevent the gouging that occurs with alloy freehub bodies. Hub engagement has been improved, so you can get the power down faster. Seals have been improved, by a fair bit (i read 400% somewhere...) which will help with durability. They're also 5g lighter. I think it's worth trying to get one, though if the discount on the 7800 is big enough, they should be fine. I'll see if Kieran can get them for a nice price, as i'm considering one for those campy rims i've got(Blasphemy!!! i know )

[weiyun]

What's the difference b/n pulling the freewheel apart and pulling the freewheel body off? Is there much more that can be removed once the body is off?

[T-Bone]

Probably not much more to remove, apart from the bearings that are usually in the freewheel body. Once i get around to buying some cone wrenches i'll take a good look inside.

[Huw]

All I did was stick an allen key in there and unscrew it. So, it came off the hub, but remained as a unit. I'll screw it back on tonight.

The only other step I'd consider taking is if I had a freehub designed to be totally disassembled and repacked (some have bearings in races or are really simple design), or prizing off the dustcap and using the Morningstar tool.

[Huw]

Fouad and I have made a decision on our race wheels - parts have been ordered and are on their way!



White Industries H1 front (20 hole) and rear (28 hole) hubs



KinLin XR-300 Niobium 30 mm (deep profile) rims



Silver Salsa steel skewers (we're too heavy for the Ti ones!)

[T-Bone]

Sounds like a good choice. What spokes are you going with?

[mikesbytes]

300gms for a pair of hubs, now that's light. What did they cost?

[Huw]

Probably double-butted on the front for more supple ride, straight-gauge on the back for strength and rigidity. Lindsay's gonna help me choose, so we'll think more seriously about it when the parts arrive. Not sure what Fouad is thinking.

[T-Bone]

300gms for a pair of hubs, now that's light. What did they cost?

My guess is US$300, give or take a little, depends where they ordered from though. 300g is reasonably light, though 200g is possible now if you have the cash.

[weiyun]

Watch the exchange rate. It has been very favourable.

[T-Bone]

Maybe these rims are what you wanted http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NOS-GIPIEMME-GPM ... dZViewItem 40mm deep, though they probably weigh a fair bit, so maybe better suited for the track, but they would polish up nicely.