thoughts on bunch rides, highways and cycling advocacy

[Adrian E]

After the tragic death of Domanic Mason, there has been a lot of discussion in the media about the place of bunch rides on the highway. A lot of it, as has been discussed, has been very negative on cyclists rights on the road. One thing that suprised me however was that the club had been reported as saying:

"The club had been pushing for a training and racing circuit that was off the road, he said."
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pac ... d=rss_news
Clearly, in an ideal world, it would be great if we had some streach of road that was long enough, then we could head out for a bunch ride with no traffic. But clearly, this is more or less impossible in a city like Sydney given that there is no space available and we have to learn how to share the road.

We know that accidents can happen, and DHBC is moving forward in establishing a guide for bunch riding that encourages safety and reduces the risks. However, I'm interested in whether there is some scope for many Sydney clubs to establish some form of advisory body to work with the RTA (and whoever else) to promote safety on the highway part of the Waterfall ride (and maybe some other parts), by identifying dangerous spots or in proposing alternative traffic conditions for the benefit of both cyclists and motorists. For instance, there has already been a consortium of clubs that have joined to represent the interests of cyclists at Centennial Park. see: http://www.randwickbotanycc.com/Cycle%2 ... /index.htm
In my mind, the Waterfall ride is just as important for Sydney cyclists.

I realise that many may see such ideas as reactionary in the wake of tragic events, and that we must all, in the end, must accept the risks and responsibilities in our riding, however I also wonder if there is scope for clubs to take the lead in asserting the rights of bunch rides on the highway and in providing greater understanding between those who manage the roads and those who use the road for different purposes.

What do you think?

[Huw]

After the tragic death of Domanic Mason, there has been a lot of disscusion in the media about the place of bunch rides on the highway.

Where has this discussion happened? Could you provide some sources - I'd be interested to read.

[weiyun]

IIRC, there was that accident about a year ago on the three gorges route that killed a female roadie.

The question is, what practical and reasonable safety measures should and can one propose to the RTA? And what active safety measures can we implement without waiting for the RTA?

A few thoughts I've had for a while,

- Daylight driving lights have been found to reduce accidents. So should we consider putting on a high powered tail light and run it during the day?

- Numerous times we have dodged bricks or other significant obstacles on our way and back from Waterfall, but how many times have we stopped to clear it for following riders?

[Adrian E]

I was referring to the comments in the Tele:
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/c ... 21,00.html

And our own discussion "Opinion of Cyclists"
http://dhbc.org.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=341

I realise that the Tele readers are often quite uninformed but they do drive cars!

[Adrian E]

They are some very good points Weiyun.

I was thinking that if we could identify some particular bad spots, such as the interesection between Sutherland and the Princess highway, then they're may be room for some kind of signage i.e. "Watch for cyclists ahead" or even an alternative/variable speed limit, then it could improve safety. I also know that many other clubs have difficulities with going through the tunnel under the airport.

[lindsay]

We have a beautiful circuit for training & bunch riding off road - Centennial Park. This has always been a home for cyclists in Inner Sydney. That's why I'm so hostile to any attempts to kick out cyclists from the park. If they restrict the bunches (as the Centennial Park Trust has wanted since year dot) that will put us on the road and that means riders will get killed.

A couple of quickies about Centennial in my opinion. The 30kph speed limit is too low for bunches however I'm not opposed to the 16 rider bunch limit. We should keep our bunches tidy and don't carry a disorganised rabble at the back. We should remember it is a public space & we share it with other users.

One thing that comes through to me from the more sane car driver comments is they don't like bike riders openly breaking the law such as running red lights. I do not think we do ourselves any favours by engaging in this sort of pratice. I know we've cleaned our act up which is to our credit.

I do agree with your idea for a advisory body to work with the RTA. The comment I'd make is the main problem is not from our side. We have the right to take up a lane, ride 2 abreast in a bunch. Aside from a bit of cleaning up from us (which our club has done eg no more running red lights etc) the call to errode our rights is comming from other road users and that's where the work could be put to make some ground for us.

[micklan]

It's such a sad tragic story.

I've no faith in paying a bicycle rego fee to rta for bike riding. It's nearly $800 to register (including green slip), my lpg ute each year and I'm driving on the same potholed roads I did 20 years ago. This is not negative humdrum - it is fact. RTA distribution of my rego fee is quiet clearly not going into road improvements/safety matters that matter to me. It's going into? not tunnels as they've a toll. 702 radio today outlined that the RTA pays $1 million a week, yes a week, to help the owners of the "harbour" tunnel to service it's interest free loan (maybe I heard wrong).

Yes; we need a body to partner improvements with the RTA.

Without a transaction; the RTA will do nothing more?, I'm not sure. The sunday training ride could be no more better refined, managed from a safety point of view (thank you DHBC) - that is early sunday morning, back roads, but I'm unsure why from an RTA operations view they can't put a notice on those flashing road signs on a sunday morning on: "cyclists on road". Agree wirh Adrian, these are small wins with significant awarenes impact.

Centenial park reamains a real luxury, and a calm place without cars.

[weiyun]

I get a impression that many of the local BUG groups are more active with these governmental liaisons eg. BikeNorth, LBUG, after all, they often are more commuter focused. But given the arrangements, a lot of these traffic issues also relate to local councils rather than just the RTA.

[Eugen Schilter]

One thing that comes through to me from the more sane car driver comments is they don't like bike riders openly breaking the law such as running red lights. I do not think we do ourselves any favours by engaging in this sort of pratice. I know we've cleaned our act up which is to our credit.

For the Club the 'no red light jump' policy is ok, politically ok.
But on a personal level we should not let the rogues sort of motorists dominate us. They break the law more often then we cyclists do (mobile use, lateral overtaking, etc). They kill! Remember: motorists are the danger, not the cyclist. We cyclist have to assert ourselves; we shouldn't be enslaved by the law. The law is here to protect, not to enforce a 'ritual' pleasing one or the other group of citizens.

This is even a recognised defence in court! There is a very good chance that a judge will take strongly into account if an act of breaking the law was designed soley to protect yourself or others (and of course did not harm anybody).

[mcrkennedy]

I know this is off the point but I feel so frustrated by my fellow cyclist behaviour.

Every weekday morning I get off the bus in Oxford street and wait to cross the road at the lights. Every morning the people crossing the road at the lights on the other side of Oxford Street take their lives in there own hand by stepping out when the crossing light is green. Why? Because every morning all the cyclists coming into the city go straight through the red light, I have never seen one cyclist stop at the red lights. I even heard one pedestrian saying today how the cyclist never stop.

There was that tragic accident in Melbourne where a bunch started to stop but was forces through because other cyclist could not take into account what may have also been happening and only be thinking about rolling.

We as cyclist must obey the rules of the road except in situations where life is threatened.

Ah I feel better!

Also the RTA are proposing wadening the Iron Cove Bridge. Of course there plans don't include a cycle path or lanes. We need to raise this issue.

[weiyun]

Also the RTA are proposing wadening the Iron Cove Bridge. Of course there plans don't include a cycle path or lanes. We need to raise this issue.

I thought they do. LBUG sent out a circular on these although it is under discussion.

[jimmy]

This is something that I found a while ago, I think someone else wrote it on a forum, so I can't take credit for it.

It is suitable to this discussion as well as the Opinion of Cyclists

Western society has embraced travel by automobile to the extent that for most the thought of going anywhere to perform basic needs such as purchasing food, visiting friends, attending work or study, the default option is no longer to use the human body, but to use a car. It has become so accepting of this choice of travel, so soft that it clings to the car as the most essential machine of our existence, that the immediate negative impacts of this mode of transport (collisions, death, disability) are seen as an inevitable part of daily life.
If in any other task we performed, we so carelessly used a machine that weighs over twenty times our own body weight, is typically propelled at over 15metres every second, is fed once use-only resources, pollutes on a massive scale, costs around a year’s salary, but is considered obsolete in five, contributes greatly to a reduction in physical fitness and attractiveness, all in close proximity to unprotected bodies you would face jail sentences, massive fines and lifelong stigma and ridicule.

While I recognise the need for cyclists, I think that too many motorists hate cyclists on some stupid principle.

It would be nice to have a long off road training course, but I can't see it happening anytime soon because of the cost of it. I would like to think that whenever there is a road infrastructure change, that a cycling plan is included, but from past experience (M2) this doesn't often happen.

Cyclists are seen as second class citizens on the road "because we don't pay rego".

I don't know what the solution is besides trying to build up from the grass roots the need to have cyclists accepted.

James

[mikesbytes]

More cyclists would result in more facilities being provided.

More facilities being provided will result in more cyclists.

In Perth cycling is 5 times more popular than it is in Sydney. Why? Better facilities.

[lindsay]

Cyclists are seen as second class citizens on the road "because we don't pay rego".

Most cyclists pay rego... most of us own cars therefore pay rego.

[weiyun]

Most cyclists pay rego... most of us own cars therefore pay rego.

And taxes and council rates...

[weiyun]

More cyclists would result in more facilities being provided.

More facilities being provided will result in more cyclists.

It is a bit of a catch-22 situation. From the smallest of all small issues, what facilities are there for changing tubes on a longish commuter ride? In Beijing where I've ridden a few times on visits, one can find a road side bike mechanic on just about every second street corner and they can pretty much handle just about all mechanical repairs for a dime. As much as we can all say that we have no trouble changing tubes or handling minor mechanical issues on the road, the same can't be said for the vast majority out there. Many people dare not venture far on their bike for this simple reason. Maybe there's a bit of self selection already.

I look forward to the future when petrol stations would stock bike tubes and can assist with tube repairs. On this, I wonder if that 7-11 we all use have thought about doing a bit more business off us?

[mikesbytes]

If your bike dies and you don't have the ability to fix it, there is usually another cyclist who can help. Worst case senerio you have to walk, it happened to me once when I broke my chain. Nowadays I carry a chain breaker.

More important for increased bike popularity is separation from motor vechiles.

[weiyun]

Well, it's hard for the uninitiated to depend on that. I think this ride-to-work concept is good where experienced riders can guide noobs on their first few rides. Why not have it more often?

I agree, the one thing that can make a cyclist feel safe is to have a proper separation with motor vehicles. Riding along parked cars and get over taken by moving vehicles does not give one confidence. But unfortunately that's also the most expensive and slowest solution to implement.

[mikesbytes]

Continuous improvement will result in steady increase of cyclists.

Before they built Anzac bridge there were hardly any cyclists riding into the city from the inner west and look at it now. However it takes time for mass to build, when the bike path first went in, it wasn't used a lot and over time the number of riders has steadily increased.

Often the problem with the existing infrastructure is that it takes you between two locations of concern rather than taking you past locations of concern. I feel that budget shouldn't be based on the distances provided by the facilities, but on the ability of the facilities to improve the overall safety of the route.

[weiyun]

Yes, that Anzac Br corridor from Timbrell Park through Lilyfield road is great. Low traffic and plenty of room for the cyclist. But only if one is lucky to live near it. Unfortunately the same can't be said of riding within Balmain.

[mikesbytes]

Yeh, pretty much the whole of Balmain is a traffic hazzard regardless of your choice of transport.

Sometimes when I ride to/from Chatswood, I go Iron Cove bay -> Birchgrove -> ferry to ? up the hill to the hospital and then thru Artarmon. That route thru Balmain ain't so bad.

There's the potential to do a path on the white bay side.

[weiyun]

Sometimes when I ride to/from Chatswood, I go Iron Cove bay -> Birchgrove -> ferry to ? up the hill to the hospital and then thru Artarmon. That route thru Balmain ain't so bad.

Not bad by Balmain standards but still lots of cars poking their heads out. And without passing room, riding slow would just frustrate the motorists behind.

[Adrian E]

Just returning to the original topic, do you think it would be worth drafting a letter to the RTA and other clubs on the issue of safety for bunch rides on the Waterfall ride?

The things we could address would be:
1) the importance of the Waterfall ride for cycling clubs in Sydney
2) to provide information on own efforts to establish a code of conduct to promote safety in bunch rides
3) a request for some collaboration between the RTA, councils and clubs, on the issue of identifying possible measures that improve safety en route.

[mikesbytes]

What was the outcome when the RTA was approached after that Triathelete got killed?